Tome of Continual Experience Lotro Keep Going While Offline

As an anti-social git I come home to play games, not to be social, I get enough of that outdoors. Also, the internet connection is not always stable so I often disconnect for no reason and thus have to stop playing lotro. So... Is it possible to allow us to play the game while not connected to the internet? To have a constant search for the internet going in the background and when it is found we are automatically connected and put into the online world. This way we don't have to stop playing when there is a power cut or our modem dies, we just have to settle for solo play.

I feel for you. I hate not having my lotro when the internet is down, and I spend alot of time soloing. But the game depends so heavily on information from server that off-line mode just isn't feasible. Still, we can hope and dream that a developer might have a "solo-layer" inspiration someday.

There are some options that you can switch off to avoid contact with others, like to disable fellowship requests and tells. These are found under the System > Options panel under Social Options. You can also filter many of the noisy channels in the chat window by using the filters, accessed by right-clicking the chat window tab. These will give you more of a "solo gaming" feel when your internet is up and running.

Blissfully smoking pipe-weed together on *Snowbourn* since 14/04/07

not really possible as others have said, for one how will the system know whether your pc has crashed or your connection to the game server has simply been lost? to the game servers both will appear to be the same thing, your pc wont send a signal back to the game servers saying hang-on im about to crash log me out

if your pc crashes you will need to re-logon but if the servers think your connection has died you wont be able to because your toons are still waiting in world for your connection to re-established

To add to what some other players have stated. The game does not exist on your PC. It only exists on Turbine's servers. Without access to their servers you can not play the game.

Your PC software is only:
1) Artwork files
2) Audio files
3) User interface
4) Music files
5) audio and music playback system
6) chat software
7) client for a voice chat system
8) 3-rendering engine
9) internet communication interface to exchange information with all the servers.
10) browser based Lotro store interface

The beauty of this design is that a company can give away the client to anyone. The client is useless by itself it is missing all interesting stuff like the loot system, our character data, load and save functionality, combat and all the other systems.

The client is kind of like a car that does not have a gas tank, battery, drive train, engine and it is missing a lot of other stuff. It only has a driver seat, set of controls and a windshield.

Aug 04 2012,04:54 PM

Games got shut down lots of time, and at sometimes players feel it was unjust - the Star Wars Galaxies was just one latest example. EA massive shutdown in spring was another: http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2012/0...layer-numbers/ Metal Gear online too http://gametyrant.co/news/2012/6/12/...s-goodbye.html

For a legal precedent - there was recently an browsed game that did close down. But. Bioware made its Dragon Age Legends available as free download, http://www.vg247.com/2012/06/19/drag...ayer-download/

From illegal side of the questions, there are pirated MMO game servers - not for every game, and not that good, but they are there.

Aug 04 2012,05:00 PM

Yeah I see the problem as you describe it - but im not sure it has to be that complicated or expensive.

As far as the hardware goes, many people already have multiple PC's (or whatever - devices.) on private networks, including client/server topology that serve up files, music, movies, code.

Devices, chips, ram and storage are cheap and getting cheaper all the time as power and performance (and ability) rises.

So its really just a matter of Turbine releasing the code for you to own - and by ownership I mean like how we "own" Music CD's, Movie DVDs, Console game disks. To privately have the right to use it for our own non-profit entertainment.

As is and stand alone.

I wouldn't pay the amount of money your are suggesting - but there is a sweet spot that I think that both turbine and I could be comfortable with.

Or I'm dreaming...

BTW by "offline" I meant not having to plug into turbines servers over the internet, and using a private server/client on a home network.

D.

Aug 04 2012,05:16 PM

Quote Originally Posted by Dwarendele View Post

Not that I'm suggesting this...

But I've heard tales, in the olden days, of people setting up private servers...

This situation used to be common. Companies have learned and changed their software to reduce or prevent it. There are two ways to do it. Often both are working together:

1) Someone creates a server emulator by reverse engineering the functionality based on analysis of the message exchanges. What they see when playing. Any information provided by the game designers on how it works. Things like formulas. Analysis of information available in the client.

2) Getting access to part or all of the server code.

The solutions companies have gone to:

1) Move all the brains to the server. There is very little information in the client.

For example, You do not send hate points to the client. You send who has aggro. You do not explain the hate system or aggro switching. Hate skills gets unhelpful labels like reduces your hate points by a small amount.

2) You make the server complicated. Do away with the old ax + b = damage points for a formula. People could easily curve fit with data points.

3) You use non continuous formulas. Formula A if your character is 1-50. Formula B for 51-60.

4) You change the formulas regularly via a redesign like our combat system.

5) You use a message layout system that allows to easily change the names of fields and move them around. We get to see the binary form. Not the easy to change source code.

I used to play Asheron's Call Turbine's first game. Turbine gave the player community access to the message catalog and the character object data layout. That way we could mod the game. With that level of knowledge some people created AC emulators, private shards.

In Lotro, we get a Lua API to support our modifications. Turbine does not expose all the data in the client. The Lotro client has a lot less data than the AC client does for us to look at.

Quote Originally Posted by Dwarendele View Post

I begin to wonder and worry about the day the servers close.

What happens to all that? Is it just gone? - poof- property of Turbine?

When Turbine's second game AC2 closed. Turbine deleted all the character data. Deleted all the server executables. The only thing left is the source code in Turbine's code management system. At least one company wanted to buy the rights to operate the game. Turbine refused.

I suspect Turbine did not want any of their software or tooling outside of Turbine's control.

Aug 04 2012,05:31 PM

That's sad and disturbing really - the fact that my little world can be gone in the blink of an eye.

I play MMO's as a hobby - especially LOTRO (and DDO) and unlike all my other hobbies - I have no by-product from it.

With painting and drawing I have art to hang on my walls (ok so my wife only lets me hang them in my puter room and garage)

With music and song writing I have CDs to pop in the ghetto blaster and get my rock on (again mostly confined to my own space)

Even with astronomy I can go out and point to an object and tell you what it is (the knowledge is retained) and with astrophotography and the use of CCD devices for telescopes I have photos of the moon and planets and other dim-fuzzys that I can point to.

But with this hobby, I have nothing tangible to show for 5+ years of play and unknown $$$

I guess I have to put it in the realm of vacations, camping, hiking, skiing...etc. Activities that I do for the experience.. with only a slide show and a t-shirt to show for it.

Still it would be awesome to have my little world endure as long as i did... providing I have a few more years left.

D

Aug 04 2012,06:41 PM

The server can definitely run on quite a small system, such as a high-end laptop. I seem to recall an interview with someone from Turbine where they mentioned that the system he was running at a show had the client and server on the same laptop.

Chances that they would ever make that available at any price, let alone an affordable one, are almost certainly nil.

Also, you have to think through the implications. If you could somehow transfer your live character to yoiur private server, it would never be able to transfer back. Things would have happened to it which the live server would not know about, and which would likely be incompatible with the live server. For example, you craft something and it gets the same unique id as something on the live server. It is a similar problem to that which makesw it imposssible to transfer characters between US and EU servers.

Personally, I would love a personal server, but as a separate game - an alternative to live play - not as an adjunct/extension. However, it is not really a practical porposition. It only works for development and demo systems where you will be wiping the database clean pretty frequently and you don't have to think about long-term maintenence of the data.

Aug 04 2012,07:37 PM

In addition to the points that Yula and WHH have made, I'm not sure Turbine/WB could sell the server code, even if they wanted to. There is the issue of the LotR license. The license is for an MMO, and for a limited amount of time, with the option to renew the license.

Quote Originally Posted by mjk47 View Post

The server can definitely run on quite a small system, such as a high-end laptop. I seem to recall an interview with someone from Turbine where they mentioned that the system he was running at a show had the client and server on the same laptop.

I remember reading that, though I'm not sure how beefed up the laptop was, or how locked down the server instance was. As I understand it, only occupied and maybe adjacent landblocks are loaded into the server, so theoretically, if only one player is on, it shouldn't take to much to run. (I could be wrong about how this works).

I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the dev work is done with local sever instances to test things before it is checked into the current build.

Aug 04 2012,09:39 PM

Quote Originally Posted by swattz101 View Post

In addition to the points that Yula and WHH have made, I'm not sure Turbine/WB could sell the server code, even if they wanted to. There is the issue of the LotR license. The license is for an MMO, and for a limited amount of time, with the option to renew the license.

An excellent point, and one I had overlooked. I think that one trumps mere techincal considerations

Quote Originally Posted by swattz101 View Post

I remember reading that, though I'm not sure how beefed up the laptop was, or how locked down the server instance was. As I understand it, only occupied and maybe adjacent landblocks are loaded into the server, so theoretically, if only one player is on, it shouldn't take to much to run. (I could be wrong about how this works).

I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the dev work is done with local sever instances to test things before it is checked into the current build.

I'm sure you are right. A single player server is much less load than a multi-player one.

Aug 04 2012,09:49 PM

Quote Originally Posted by Dwarendele View Post

That's sad and disturbing really - the fact that my little world can be gone in the blink of an eye.

The reality check is to go read the Terms of Service and other documents controlling the relationship between you and Turbine.

Generally speaking, you *never* "buy" software. You agree to a license that permits you to use it, under certain restrictions. With a game like LotRO, one of those restrictions will be that the company can do pretty much whatever it wants and you get to lump it. Shutting the game down is just one of the thing Turbine can do. The only control on that is any government regulations regarding notification intervals before they do so, and even there, it is highly likely that there are ways around such notification...just to create an artificial example; suppose Turbine has to give 90 days notice that they're pulling the plug. They give the notice and then tell everyone that the serves are going to be down for "maintenance" starting the next day and they don't know when they'll be back up...can you prove that they pulled the plug with only a one day warning? I doubt it... In actual practice, for the one game that Turbine *did* shut down, they gave 17 weeks notice and stopped taking money for that entire period. They also put things in game that permitted people to go to max level, max crafting, and explore to their hearts content for that period. There were quite a few people online the night the servers went dark...

I play MMO's as a hobby - especially LOTRO (and DDO) and unlike all my other hobbies - I have no by-product from it.

Not quite true...you have your memories and you have your screen shots. You also have the knowledge gained of how to play MMOs. Granted that's about it, but it's not "nothing".

You've been paying Turbine to have access to the world they have created based on Tolkien's writing. You've been paying to have participatory entertainment. And that last is more than you get out of the average movie...and cheaper (on a per hour basis) too.

--W. H. Heydt

Old Used Programmer

Aug 04 2012,10:25 PM

It is indeed sad to think upon that characters that many of us have put years into will vanish. And they will vanish a lot faster than they were created! With the push of a button, they'll all go into digital-nowhereville.

If the store and such didn't exist, that would be one thing. But since the store DOES exist, and they actually charge you to 'purchase' things, like cosmetic slots, extra vault space, etc... which you do not own once that transaction is completed. You basically rent it. And you rent it for an unspecified period of time, that is apt to change at any moment, known only to the company that is leasing you the space. You don't know whether you are leasing it for 6 months or 60 years. You paid for it. You 'got the zone', but then again, you didn't really get anything. You just rented 'access' to the zone. For an unspecified and unknown amount of time. Unknown to YOU that is. I'm pretty sure they know what the end of life for the game is, and have a plan (or several alternate plans) in place for it. How could they not?

Unless something drastic happens, and the license is re-aquired somehow, the game will probably remain online for a year or so after Mordor.

But during that time, and in the last push, it occurs to me how utterly dishonest it would seem to push things from the store at that point in time, knowing that the game was going to close down. (I can see it now. Game is closing in Dec, and in Nov, they have a 50% off 'sale' on nearly everything in the store. Maybe that's a bit pessimistic on my part, but I can see that happening to get one last 'hurrah' out of the store before it's closed down.)

Think about it like this, if someone was renting you a house, but they told you that they were going to kick you out, on very short notice, and that you could not keep any 'improvements' you'd made to the house, would you even rent it? Maybe, maybe not.

It's all twisted in legalese, but the bottom line is that when they finally decide to pull the plug, it all goes away. Forever.

Aug 05 2012,12:42 AM

Quote Originally Posted by Kaynith View Post

Think about it like this, if someone was renting you a house, but they told you that they were going to kick you out, on very short notice, and that you could not keep any 'improvements' you'd made to the house, would you even rent it? Maybe, maybe not.

Actually...that's NORMAL when renting a house. Improvements stay with the property. Landlord can evict you with proper legal notice (usually 30 days, but there are situations where it can be less).

--W. H. Heydt

Old Used Programmer

Aug 05 2012,02:20 AM

It occurs to me then, that truly for any sustainable presence then turbine stores should be cast across games - lots of games - not just the LOTRO store or the DDO store - but a P.O.S. footprint that can outlast any individual title, perhaps tied to a service like Steam?

I have a feeling that, that's not going to be a popular statement - but from a business perspective, wouldn't it make sense to look for ways to extend your shelf life and create a scenario for continued growth?

I think that the F2P model + a library of game titles + micro-transaction point of purchase that encompasses the entire library + a service delivery method on a per account agreement seems like a natural progression - Sub to one service that delivers to your account a choice of games, all f2p - the ones you like you play - the ones you really like you pay for additional content - the ones nobody likes goes away - I can honestly see how that might benefit the game playing community and perhaps lower prices overall, and even bring innovation to the industry, just from the odds of volume...

Then maybe games wouldn't be vying for everyone's attention with hype, gimmicks, snake-oil and thievery - the market could sort it out and players would have more of a choice as to the type of content they want to play - and not just a one size fits all approach.

But then again I've been at the Gaffers Jug again...

D.
/end derail

Aug 05 2012,10:09 AM

Quote Originally Posted by whheydt View Post

Actually...that's NORMAL when renting a house. Improvements stay with the property. Landlord can evict you with proper legal notice (usually 30 days, but there are situations where it can be less).

--W. H. Heydt

Old Used Programmer

This is cultural. In Germany you take the improvements with you. In fact you have to be careful with the term "unfinished" apartment. Often this term means that the tenant has to equio the apartment according to their needs. This could include, outlets, switches, light fixtures, toilet. It is not unusual when a German tenant when they move out to keep the dead light bulbs. Put them back in when they leave taking the working bulbs with them. I even knew a guy that took the toilet. Apparently there can be negotiation where the owner agrees to buy the stuff. They do not always come to an agreement. Especially if the tenant is moving to another place that does not have outlets and the like.

I never fully understood all this stuff. German rental practices are much wider than American. I rented a fully furnished apartment. It had beds, cleaning supplies and all that stuff. They targeting the "Deed in the head lights" folks like me. Family of four - parents and two kids. Only Ms. Yula is fluent in German. Neither of us understood German culture. Even simple stuff like where to get a screwdriver? What kind of store? What company? Where is nearest one?

All our personal belongings arrived by ship a month later. They were in a sturdy wood box sealed with metal bands and screws. The Bunny is dumb. My screwdrivers and band cutter are in that sturdy box. The box is on the sidewalk. Union rules. Truck driver can only get the box off the truck. We did not have a crew to bring the stuff up to our apartment on the third floor (fourth by American standards).

Aug 05 2012,10:18 AM

People die. It sucks that they just go poof and you can do nothing about it.

Aug 05 2012,07:57 PM

Quote Originally Posted by Dwarendele View Post

It occurs to me then, that truly for any sustainable presence then turbine stores should be cast across games - lots of games - not just the LOTRO store or the DDO store - but a P.O.S. footprint that can outlast any individual title, perhaps tied to a service like Steam?

I have a feeling that, that's not going to be a popular statement - but from a business perspective, wouldn't it make sense to look for ways to extend your shelf life and create a scenario for continued growth?

I think that the F2P model + a library of game titles + micro-transaction point of purchase that encompasses the entire library + a service delivery method on a per account agreement seems like a natural progression - Sub to one service that delivers to your account a choice of games, all f2p - the ones you like you play - the ones you really like you pay for additional content - the ones nobody likes goes away - I can honestly see how that might benefit the game playing community and perhaps lower prices overall, and even bring innovation to the industry, just from the odds of volume...

Then maybe games wouldn't be vying for everyone's attention with hype, gimmicks, snake-oil and thievery - the market could sort it out and players would have more of a choice as to the type of content they want to play - and not just a one size fits all approach.

But then again I've been at the Gaffers Jug again...

D.
/end derail

Sounds like Perfect World games. I'm not sure if all the games are fully integrated, like the Cryptic games, but it seems like you can by Zen and then transfer them to specific games.

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